1) Read the rest of chapter 10 and make a SHORT (ie 2-3 sentences) comment on one of the discussion leader's posts.
2) Read the in-class essay assignment. Pick and character. Develop a preliminary thesis and outline. Bring this into class. We will be working on this during class on Monday.
For Discussion Leaders only:
1) In-class essay, same as #2 above.
2) Write a post on ONE of the following questions OR something equally valid of your own choosing. Use specific details/examples wherever possible. Please post if at all possible by TOMORROW.
1)
What’s the point of the Hansel and Gretel
allusion at the start of chapter 10?
Why would Morrison use it as a metaphor or starting point for Milkman’s
journey to recover his family’s past/their gold?
2)
Analyze Guitar’s speech that “everybody wants
the life of a black man” (222-223). Repercussions of this speech for the
friendship between Guitar and Milkman?
4)
Milkman’s character development. Where is he on his journey to find “a
clear-lined self”? To what extent
is he making progress in discovering himself and becoming a better person? Where is he still sort of a brat?
6)
The story of Milkman’s encounter with Circe at
first seems almost too fantastic to be real. What details in the story or phrases seem intentionally set
to make the reader thing it is all a dream? What details root the story in reality? Either way, what’s the point of
Milkman’s journey to see Circe?
Why is it significant?
1) The Hansel and Gretel allusion in the beginning of the chapter seemed to serve as a sort of comparison of foreshadowing events. It suggests that Milkman's quest for gold will lead him to discover something much deeper that will reveal who he truly is as a person. What starts out as just as a quest for riches might lead to a much more spiritual search for his self-identity.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the Hansel and Gretel metaphor foreshadows Milkman's quest, but I thought of it as more ominous. H +G are overcome by hunger and therefore run towards a "house where a woman older than death lived" (219). I see this as saying Milkman will do foolish things or put himself in danger because of his overwhelming desire for the gold.
DeleteI agree with what Neethi and Meredith said; this allusion lays out Milkman's quest for gold, which may endanger him because he will certainly do anything to get the gold. I also noticed that this allusion connects directly do Milkman's quest through the woods; he does actually meet "a woman older than death" (219) who happens to be Circe. Before meeting her, there is a description of different types of witches on page 239, which seemed to fit Circe's appearance and behavior; Hansel and Gretel find a witch and Milkman meets a woman who is like a witch in the sense that she is ageless and seems to be supernatural.
DeleteI agree with everybody else who has commented on this post. The only thing I would like to add is that Milkman is PUSHED into this quest in some ways by his father. In Hansel and Gretel the parents are very poor and in order to preserve resources, they send their children into the forest to die. Could Macon be doing this for other reasons? Could he know in his heart that the gold is not there? We will find out what happens in Virginia in Chapter 11.
DeleteYeah, I agree for the most part about what people have said about how Milkman's infatuation for wealth will be deadly for those around him. Ironically he says to the Reverend, "'I don't care whether it did them good. The fact is they did somebody else harm'" (232). Also Circe and the witch in Hansel and Gretel gets "tricked" or "killed" but also in those stories, the protagonists lose something important to them, whether it be morality, something of material worth, their innocence, etc. I think we have to remember that these myths, legends, fairy tales, and fables, were originally horror stories of sorts with grave messages.
DeleteTo Mike's comment, actually Milkman isn't pushed into anything. He's led into it. There's a subtle difference. He's led to think all these things same as the children in the fairy tale. They are impressionable and ignorant/naive of the ways of the world. So maybe they will find their way in the end, but there is always a price to pay for it.
DeleteAlso regarding the father figure parallels, in H+G, he thought he was doing the right thing by letting his kids go, so maybe Macon, thinks what he is doing is the right thing as well. I mean, nearly all the family members are described as near crazy.
I agree with Neethi that Milkman's quest is more for self identity than for riches, but we have to ask if, for Milkman, those two things differ. Milkman has led a life where being successful and having money are the things to be strived for, and due to his father instilling these values so hard in Milkman's early life they have become who Milkman is. Perhaps the way for Milkman to really achieve his true self identity, pre Macon II, is to separate himself from the main bond between him and his father, his money and his job.
DeleteI agree with Chaewon, the Hansel and Gretel story creates a leeway into Milkman's quest. It is almost a parallel story, as if to foreshadow the outcome of Milkman's quest. Usually fairytales are used as morals in stories such as these, which makes me wonder if this was possible Morrison's decision in a way as well, considering this book brings up certain ethics questions about roles of the different people in society. I also agree with Neethi's point that the quest is meant to reveal what kind of person Milkman is, also tying in with the moral and ethical aspect of the book.
DeleteI agree with Neethi about how Milkman's quest for the gold turns into a quest to find out more about himself and his family. He starts out as being greedy, as were Hansel and Gretel in the allusion, they all wanted something that they know they shouldn't have. In Milkman's case he has pushed forward past his want for gold and now wants to know more about himself, were he came from, and who he will be.
DeleteI agree with what Neethi says about the Hansel and Gretal comparason playing into foreshadowing about his quest for the gold and his family's history. He goes on this journey not only to prove something to his father but more for himself, traveling back to his roots in the deep south to see who he is and where he came from. I think that is a big part of this book, self-realization and how family history plays a role in finding out who you are, what you stand for, and uncovering pieces of your past.
DeleteI agree with all of the above responses -- I think that the H/G allusion references Milkman's quest for the gold. By using this allusion which most readers understand they can now really understand how strong and potentially dangerous Milkman's desire for the gold is. The starving children are drawn to the candy like Milkman is to the gold. In the end, however, H/G manage to outsmart the witch, and maybe this allusion is foreshadowing that Milkman will too.
ReplyDelete6. There are many details that make the meeting with Circe very suspect in terms of reality and dreams. The fact that everybody thinks Circe is dead but the fact that Milkman speaks to her is weird. Also how the house seems to change scents the closer he gets, from decay, rot, and putrid, to ginger-sweet is also suspicious.
ReplyDeleteThere are several things that imply that this meeting with Circe may be a dream. For one, she is WAY to old to be alive. Also, Milkman says she has the steady voice of a 20 year old (which even convinces him that she is dead). The thirty dogs that are quickly reproducing is another strange image that seems very fantastical. But if this meeting with Circe is a dream, she helps him find his way. She shares information with him that helps him figure out where the gold may be hidden and where to go now that he knows its not in the cave. Maybe she is a figment of his imagination and helps him put things together that he already knew subconsciously.
DeleteI agree that Milkman meeting Circe seemed very borderline on reality and fantasy, and that it probably was a fragment of his imagination because by now she would be about 160 years old and lives amongst a pack of weimaraners. When Milkman talks to her, he is taken aback and is in disbelief by a lot of what she says, like his mother's name, Sing, and is followed by a constant humming coming from the dogs, which also seems unreal because dogs do not really hum. The whole scene seems to be very musical, haunting and strange.
DeletePerhaps the ginger smell is another reference to the witches house in Hansel and Gretel. At first the house has a repulsive smell but it suddenly changes and becomes very inviting. I see this as the author communicating that the situation is an illusion and the original scent (reality) is being masked by the temptation of the comfort the illusion offers.
DeleteAlso, the reference to "I hope they find my body" could be saying that she is already dead and her body already needs finding. The problem is that without having met Circe how could everything else like finding the cave have happened? It requires the reader to then question practically the whole chapter.
DeleteI was't sure whether or not to believe the encounter with Circe was real or Milkman's dream. In previous chapters, Pilate is associated with supernatural qualities, so maybe in the context of the book (if there is supposed to be things such as magic and supernatural powers), I can believe meeting Circe is real. However, this scene could just be on of symbolism that that Morrison put in...
Delete6) Throughout the Circe story, I was unsure as to whether it was true or simply a hallucination. One quote that led me to believe it was simply fantasy was: "'Hope they find me soon and don't let me lay in here too long.'" (245). Although Milkman took this to mean that she wanted to be found soon after she died [in the future], I thought she was telling us that she was already dead. Also, when she tells him that the only person who comes by is the man who brings dog food--It is possible that she's living off the Butler's land, though unlikely she'd be so healthy without protein or anything of the sort. Also, Reverend Cooper knew when she died (or at least that she was older than 100), implying someone did find her, and after all, someone had to bury the last Butler, and then wouldn't they do something with the house? All of this, and her voice, despite the fact that she would be nearly 200, point to fantasy. And yet, there are pieces of the story that imply she is real, for example the perfect directions to the cave that no one else would be able to tell Milkman, and perhaps the dogs (though wouldn't people think she was alive, if 'dog-people' came through looking for her?) give a suggestion that the meeting could be real. Either way, something I found important in this story was the ginger smell that Milkman described as money, sex, and soft lights, and had only smelled before when he was stealing from Pilate. The smell led him to the bones, and after that, led him to their first resting place. Milkman knows little about his family beyond his father, and though he thinks he's chasing gold, in reality he's chasing the story of his family. I also found it interesting that Macon Dead I's wife is named Sing, giving new meaning to "Sing. Sing, you can't just fly on off and leave a body." (147 and others) Circe helps explain Macon's message to his wife.
ReplyDeleteOn another note, I just want to spend a minute dissecting Morrison's choice of name. In Greek mythology, Circe was an enchantress, described as living in a mansion in a clearing in a dense forest (in the book, Milkman claims "he could barely walk through [the forest]" (250)), and lives with wolves and great cats, who are actually men who had discovered her, and were turned into animals. Somewhat similar to this Circe, who lives alone in a mansion, with dozens of dogs? The Greek Circe also suggested routes home to Odysseus (in the Odyssey), Ithaca, and this Circe presents to Milkman a route to his grandfather's bones, something he associates with his lineage and home.
(sorry for the late post, I forgot to click publish a second time!)
When I say healthy, I mean healthy at such an old age (which is implausible in itself)
DeleteI like your analysis of how Morrison made it seem like a dream-- when I was reading I was extremely confused as to what was going on, as Morrison had many descriptions of Circe where she was described as a witch. I also had the same thought as you when I found out the mother's name was Sing. There's definitely some sort of connection with the "Sing, Sing" quote and Pilate singing in general.
DeleteYeah, I agree with Jessica and Gabby that Morrison's comparisons of Circe and Milkman's dreams. AND I was confused too reading the part when Milkman met her on the staircase and just the whole scene. Was she actually there? and it made no sense that she would want to stay in that old abandoned house to make sure it rotted to the ground, so that's what made me think he imagined her.
DeleteFrom Kaitlyn:
ReplyDeleteI agree with Neethi, that perhaps this quest for gold will make Milkman discover some underlying truth about him, and I also agree with Meredith, that this whole quest will also cause him to get into some sort of predicament because all of a sudden, Milkman has this desire to get the gold. It’s powerful, just like the hunger described in the story, and that’s the source of what’s driving Hansel and Gretel as well as Milkman to perhaps spur them to do something they normally wouldn’t do. Milkman seems to want this gold really badly and doesn’t exactly seem to think about the possibility of it not being there, it’s a story that his father told him, he doesn’t question the truth, yet he has this desire to find it because he still seems sort of selfish.
Yeah. I definitely think that Morrison's goal was to make it difficult to determine whether or not the encounter with Circe was a mirage or not. Not on her voice of a young person, but also how she changes the bad smell into a ginger scent makes her seem more magical and dream like. This makes me question how accurate the history that Milkman discovers about his family is.
ReplyDeleteWhat makes us think that the meeting with Circe might be real?
ReplyDeleteI found it very interesting how motivated Milkman is to finding the gold. Milkman "left off thinking and let his body do the work" (251). Milkman is determined to find the gold that his cares about the outside world are erased. I think Morrison is trying to tell us that once we find something that we want so badly we will ignore all other forces to achieve it.
ReplyDelete