Song of Solomon Chapter 5 Homework Assignment
Fair warning, Chapter 5 is long—start reading tonight.
For your assigned character (Hagar, Pilate, Ruth), please answer the following question. Take note of AT LEAST one significant
quotation. You may refer to
evidence in ch. 4 that relates to this question, if you wish.
·
What issues and themes does Morrison want to
explore through the women of Song of Solomon? What recurring motifs and images (concerning women) do you
see? How are they
significant? Do the
stories/significant events of chapter 5 make you sympathize with your assigned
character? Why or why not?
Discussion leaders, I am counting on you to post longer posts about your assigned
character. Remember to try to post
early on so others can comment.
Please include more than one quotation.
Everyone else, you should comment under one of the
discussion leaders, if possible. You
may post EITHER a shorter paragraph about one of the ideas/quotations raised by
a discussion leader OR another quotation that seemed significant to the
question, with only a couple bullet points of context and analysis.
As always, if there is something you find particularly
confusing or compelling, you make write your post about this instead.
Our Discussion Leaders Are: Meredith, Daniella, Dan (I know you're up for the challenge!)
**Regardless of which character you were assigned in class, Meredtih, please focus on Hagar. Daniella, please focus on Pilate (remember to consider knife fight in ch. 4). Dan, please focus on Ruth.
The women in Song of Solomon are very dramatic- Pilate has no navel, Ruth may or may not have slept with her father, and Hagar tries to murder her "true love" every month. Morrison emphasizes again and again Hagar's wildness and passion. She compares her to a witch, a shark (128) and even a thundercloud. Morrison writes that Hagar's, "maturity and blood kinship converted her passion to fever, so it was more affliction than affection" (127). Hagar is literally driven crazy by her need, "fever" for Milkman. She feels like she was "born for him" and wants to kill him, not so much because of jealousy, but bc his copper-headed girlfriend is taking Milkman away from her (Hagar). When Ruth confronts Hagar about trying to kill her son, "Hagar looked surprised. She loved nothing in the world except this woman's son... but hadnt the least bit of control over the predator that lived inside her. Totally taken over by her anaconda love, she had no self left, no fears, no wants, no intelligence that was her own" (137). Hagar is consumed, restricted by her "anaconda love," and has lost her sense of self.
ReplyDeleteI think Morrison is commenting on the emotional dominance that men show in this book. Milkman and Guitar become indifferent to the women they sleep with, and cut them off when they're sick of them. Hagar, though, is emotionally destroyed by her passion for Milkman. This makes us sympathize with her somewhat, bc we pity her. However, I don't sympathize with Hagar much bc I feel like she should just move on- Milkman isnt worth her losing her life about.
I agree with what Meredith had to say; I don't sympathize with Hagar as much also because she put her in that situation herself. When Milkman was younger, she did not take him seriously; it makes sense because he was younger but as he matured, she started to realize that she was falling in love with him. I'm not even sure if it is even true love; I think it's Hagar's possessiveness that is making her so angry that she does not have control over Milkman and Milkman's love. She cannot just expect him to love her back when she did the same thing to Milkman a long time ago that Milkman is doing to her now. Also the symbols that Meredith brought up, which are "thundercloud" and "shark", have a connotation of quickness. I also think of an impulse. Her "love" for Milkman is an impulse; she is getting upset that she is not getting what she wants - Pilate mentions that Hagar had been spoiled (151). At the moment, she really wants to be with Milkman but she cannot be with him and the though of this failure is bother her. The fact that Hagar gets compared to a shark makes her look like a predator trying to attack her prey, which dehumanizes her and makes her look heartless.
DeleteI also agree with Meredith about not sympathizing with Hagar. She has lost all of herself and her individuality over Milkman. She is consumed and obsessed with him, and doesn’t do anything about it though it is destroying her. Another reason I can’t sympathize or relate to her much after this chapter is because she is haunted by not just any man, but Milkman. We (as readers) know a lot about Milkman’s selfishness and other unattractive qualities, as we have been in his head and heard his thoughts. Hagar isn’t concerned with these faults. Either she can’t see them or chooses to ignore them. Hagar’s actions are surely extreme, but her inability to break free of Milkman and stand on her own without him and move on expose some of her weaknesses. Ruth notes that there “was something truly askew in this girl” (138). Perhaps her extreme obsession with Milkman is causing her to go a little insane. I’m not quite sure what to make of the fact that “Hagar was prissy” (150) as a child. Maybe it is part of why she is so deeply scarred at losing Milkman, because she isn’t getting what she wants, and she’s used to that.
DeleteBut I think that Hagar has moved beyond being emotional. Ruth says of her, "She was looking not at a person but at an impulse, a cell, a red corpuscle that neither knows nor understands why it is driven to to spend its whole life in one pursuit" (137). Hagar is all drive and this consuming passion, but I don't think it is emotion. More like it has become her. The place I might meet you, Meredith, halfway is in the different ways that Hagar and Milkman misunderstand love. Milkman thinks that it is something small that you can throw around lightly, while Hagar thinks it is the overwhelming desire for something. But neither of them really understand what love is
DeleteI agree with what Meredith said in that the women in this novel are very dramatic and each one sort of has their own role in what type of woman they are, Pilate being the estranged sister who has wild tendencies (the incident with the knife), Hagar being completely obsessed with Milkman, so obsessed that she even resorts to wanting to murder him, and Ruth being the Mother that you want to look to as a maternal figure of stability, but has her own weird history with her son and father. Each one makes women look somewhat weak with flaws but also strong in that they fight for what they want (not really Ruth) but in veeeery strange ways. I think Morrison tries to show in Milkman and Hagar's relationship, the idea of whoever cares less, has the upper hand in the relationship, and in this case its Milkman so by that he has dominance and control over her
DeleteAs many of my ideas have already been stated, I am instead going to dissect Hagar's name (as in, Morrison's choice). In Hebrew, the root hgr means to flee. Although in the Torah it was Hagar who was expelled, in this book, Milkman is the one who runs from her. The original Hagar's main purpose was also only sex, as is Reba's daughter. But what I find most interesting is the interpretation of Hagar in the Christian Bible--she is there described as a "bondswoman", strangely similar to the restriction of her "anaconda love" (137).
DeleteThe character I focused on, Pilate, positively separates herself from the other two man. While Hagar and Ruth think that they give Milkman what he needs, Pilate emphatically replies, "two growed-up women talking' 'bout a man like he was a house or needed one. He ain't a house, he's a man and whatever he need, don't none of you got it." (138). This quote shows Pilate's perceptiveness of Milkman and what his problem is. She understands Milkman a lot more than Ruth and Hagar, women who love Milkman, but don't have his love in return. She astutely points out that Milkman hasn't acted like he cared about Ruth or Hagar. She also seems to suggest that these women are the cause of that. Pilate knows who she is and because of that she is the most well rounded woman, and person on the book so far.
ReplyDeleteI meant to say woman instead of man.
DeleteI agree that Pilate gives the most love to Milkman, and would like to build off that point as Pilate is described as a great healer of a woman. Indeed, Pilate always seems to have the right advice or the right mixture to solve problems in the family. Pilate can pacify any situation with her concise collected personality, for example when Ruth says that Pilate's words, "disarmed her," (139). Pilate does in fact heal Ruth's lost love temporarily and keeps Ruth from aborting Milkman with her remedies and help.
DeleteFor this reason I think Pilate has a particularly close relationship with Milkman, as she was the only one who really had the courage to prevent his death. Without Pilate, Milkman never would have been born and Ruth had no willpower to stop Macon. These facts of Milkman's past and Pilate's nurturing lend to a strong symbol of Pilate being a supernatural healing woman.
Something I found strange, but not unlike Pilate's behavior was that her father told her to pick up his body parts and she put them in the sack. Is that the same sack that hangs from the ceiling in her house? If so, that's a lot like Ruth visiting her father. Perhaps there is a strong symbolism between father in daugter.
Pilate, unlike the other women of the book, is portrayed as a strong individual and because of this is admired and feared by everyone in the book. Morrison promotes the idea of women being independent from the control of a man, and while Hagar and Ruth are both committed to Milkman, Pilate is able to think for herself. It also seems that Pilate is shunned by society for being different from the expected submissive role of women, just like she was pushed away because of her physical difference, with no belly button.
DeleteI agree with Ian. Pilate is portrayed as an independent woman, but I also think that beneath her headstrong personality, she is self-conscious, and most of all, afraid of rejection. All her life, she has been looked at as if she was some sort of freak or unnatural being because she lacks a naval. When she lives on the island for a bit, she never lets anyone find out about how she lacks a naval and she even ends up in a relationship with a man who gets her pregnant. He offers to marry her, but she refuses because she is afraid that he will find out about her lack of a naval and then, like everyone else, will reject her. A couple of years after Reba is born, "Pilate was seized with restlessness. It was as if her geography book had marked her to roam the country, planting her feet in each pink...state. She left the island and began the wandering life...Having had one long relationship with a man, she sought another, but no man was like that island man ever again either" (148). That island was the only place that she felt the most welcome, but ironically, it was the place that no one knew about her naval. After she leaves, she tries to find a place that will treat her in the same way she was treated on the island, but she can't, so she begins to travel again to seek what she wants to feel. Pilate never finds another man because if she gets too close to him, he will find about her naval and she is afraid he will leave and shun her.
DeletePerhaps it is exactly this shunning, this being cut off, set apart from human contact (because of suspiscion over her lack of belly button), that makes Pilate develop strength and independence. She CAN'T depend on others, so she doesn't. She is the only one able to recognize the power of being alone.
DeleteNeethi, I like your analysis of how Pilate seems to be more knowledgable and understands Milkman better than both Hagar and Ruth. When I was reading, I thought that there were many instances where Pilate tries to offer advice, especially to Ruth, which shows how she is a good-hearted person. She tries to share the knowledge she has gathered up through all her years of experience in order to help others out. Because of this, I think Morrison portrays her as a very maternal character.
DeleteThe story Pilate tells about her struggles growing up and being isolated made me sympathize with her a lot. I feel it shows just how strong a woman she is as she took the insults and prejudices she endured and instead of letting them control her life, she uses them and re-evaluates what's important in her life, and changes herself for the better.
Building off of Neethi's comment that Pilate is the only one of the woman who really knows and considers what Milkman needs, I think Pilate has a distinct role in this story of healer, provider and protector. I see in this story many examples of unhealthy or one sided love. But Pilate understands people, and is able to get to the heart of things as well as place someone else needs over hers. While Ruth and Hagar smother Milkman by only worrying about how they need him, Pilate keeps her distance form him but is there when he needs her.
DeleteShe does a similar thing for Reba, when she is being chased by a man Pilate is willing to shove a knife in him to protect her. Pilate acts as the only example of proper love in this story and in many other ways already mentioned, is the only fully formed and independent person.
I think I will have to start up the conversation for Ruth so that we don't have to wait too late for it! I think that one of the themes of Morrison's writing on women is the awkwardness between both sexes. Milkman always seems to be awkward, trying to find his place in the family as a dominating figure and powerful person. He acts more and more like Macon. But the thing that I find interesting is that when Milkman is stalking Ruth, his actions are like Macon, but his emotions are somewhere else. He is not headstrong but tries to be. "'Hello, Mama'" he said. He tried to make his voice sound as cooley cruel as he felt; just as he tried to frighten her by stepping out suddenly from behind the tree"(123). This quote is interesting because the relationship between the two is not quite like mother and son. I can't think of another person in the book or in real life that does this to their mother! He is also described as "creeping" -- a little sketchy in my opinion because Milkman is Ruth's son. This sort of leads to another theme, mysteriousness. Ruth and Pilate are the two most mysterious women in the book in my opinion. They are always surrounded by death and foggy circumstances. For example, when is found not to have a naval and her father dies in her arms. Ruth's father also died as a person of interest as he was racist towards other blacks despite his own race. I'm not sure who or who I wouldn't sympathize with. Everything is a tad complicated... but I know one thing is for sure, if I were Ruth I would not want my son watching me without my knowledge!!!
ReplyDeleteLastly, this is completely off topic, but I thought it would be a nice chance. When I post, I go as just.a.simple.chef. I plan to start my blog up again soon. Please visit it if you need any help in the culinary world! Thanks!
I agree with the creepy and mysterious aspects of Ruth that you brought up, and think that both apply well to the relationship between milkman and Ruth. As the reader we know that Ruth got a thrill out of breastfeeding Milkman, however, it unclear to us how Milkman feels about it. When Milkman confronts his mother about nursing him he says that he nursed her, "Until I was...old. Too old." Evidently Milkman does not approve of what his mother has done, but Milkman does know about Ruth and Dr. Foster, so I wonder if he is suspicious of what his mother was doing.
DeleteI agree with Ian on the awkward approach that Milkman made. I also think that it was a great opportunity that Milkman had to figure out the truth. I disagree with Dan because I don't think she's really redeeming herself from all the other things we already know, and I feel like she can't be trusted more than Macon. From my point of view, neither Ruth or Macon are good people or trust-able characters. In this chapter, we do see Ruth unfold in a way where she's desperate to be sexually pleased. I think this because she used aphrodisiac on Macon Dead, so that she could have a sexual relationship with him. This also ties in with Audrey's point about Ruth breastfeeding Milkman for her own benefit. I think that Ruth is a weak character and the way she approaches others is with her weird affections and her obsession to be pleased sexually.
DeleteI think Ruth's unbridled impulses come from frustration that her husband doesn't please her. I think of this as the "reverse-anaconda". She is so removed from love, so lonely, that she is overly affectionate to anyone/anything she can get her hands on. While the "anaconda" lover is so loving to the point he/she smothers the object of affection, the "reverse anaconda" is so deprived she lashes out her affection in every direction. Neither Milkman nor his father show her genuine affection, so she goes to great lengths to feel it, by any means necessary, regardless of its appropriateness.
DeleteOk guys I know you were all waiting for my post with baited breath so here goes (by the way sorry I posted late but AP studying was really time consuming). So in my opinion Ruth in chapter 5 is in many ways redeemed to the reader, we are told by her that the things Macon told Milkman pertaining to his mother are false as well as a few other startling revelations about Macon's behavior towards Ruth. The most startling of these revelations, I thought, was how Macon tried to kill his unborn son. I was confused why he didn't want another baby, perhaps because he was still disgusted with what he thought he saw Ruth doing with her dead father (which apparently turned out to be lies that Macon grew to believe) or maybe he just didn't want another life that would further tie him to his wife for another 20 or so years. Either way I think his actions, if we choose to believe Ruth over Macon, are completely wrong and show a sadistic side of him; I want to be clear that by no means am I criticizing abortion as a practice (I think its always a woman's right to decide) however a forced abortion against a woman's will I think everyone can agree is barbaric and awful. Macon's actions here contribute to my feeling sympathy for Ruth but also, if not as importantly, Hagars' attempts to kill Milkman are also another contributing factor to that sympathy. So can we really criticize Ruth's occasional weirdness (e.g. breastfeeding incident) when, as the narrator notes on page 134, "she saw her son's imminent death as the annihilation of the last occasion she had been made love to". It is hard, for me at least, to not feel compassion for a mother that has had her son's life threatened 2 times and has had to get help from Pilate both times to save him.---Dan Harris
ReplyDeleteI agree with Dan in that we should feel compassionate to Ruth as a mother because she wanted Milkman, her third child so badly that she was willing to essentially drug her husband into having sex with her for the baby to be conceived.
DeleteI don't know if we can trust Ruth and her stories though, and not trust Macon because I think that both of them have pretty decent reasons to lie and not to lie. If Ruth is lying to Milkman when he catches her going to lie on her father's grave, it could be because she wants to appear caring to him when instead she leaves her home in the middle of the night, risking her life to spend time with where his corpse is. It is evident that Ruth is ashamed that Milkman catches her doing this, "Ruth's shoulders seemed to slump, but she said in a surprisingly steady voice.." (123), so coming up with such an elaborate and defensive story could just have likely have been a lie, or exaggeration in the least.
There is certainly a question of truth vs. storytelling (which is inherently inaccurate) in BOTH Macon's and Ruth's stories. However, note that in the line you cite Emma, Ruth's voice is "surprisingly steady."
DeleteLike Dan, I find that this chapter makes me more sympathetic towards Ruth. She is so starved for human affection that she'll go to her father's grave (the last person she thinks loved her) at night for companionship. We need to think more about why Macon tried so hard to be rid of his son--perhaps disgust for Ruth and the fact that she drugged him, but it is short-sighted and immoral for Macon not to recognize the value of human life.
I wish someone would think about this quotation some more: Ruth to Milkman re: her praying for him "every single night and every single day":
Delete"What harm did I do you on my knees?" (126)
I think Morrison is trying to bring up the theme that Pilate isn't exactly normal in her methods of dealing with things, the way she was born, or her beliefs. Despite that though, and despite her strange way of doing things, Pilate is constantly acting as a strong maternal figure and in some ways a paternal figure. Considering her appearance, how she grew up, and how her daughter and neither her granddaughter has a father that was mentioned, she takes it upon herself to defend them but also give them sound advice when they need it as seen during the knife fight, if you could even call it a fight considering how it was all one-sided on Pilate's part. She acted like a mother bear and protected Reba from the ensuing assault by one of her lovers.
ReplyDeleteWhat I find even more compelling is the demeanor in which she is able to give "advice". She talks the man down from doing anything hasty but as well as giving advice to Ruth about countless things like, "'When you expectin, you have to eat what the baby craves...less it come in the world hongry for what you denied it" (132). Her advice is very superstitious and not unheard of. What I wonder though is whether Milkman was denied anything physical or what Ruth could have denied him that was emotional that he is after. I still cannot grasp that yet, but Milkman is definitely hoping to get something, something that he already can't have, after all, as seen with the Christmas letter episode, he likes the thrill of the chase not the actual object or person that he thought he desired. But considering how Ruth thinks, "But who is this son of hers? This tall man who had flesh on the outside and feelings on the that she knew nothing of, but somebody did, knew enough about him to want to kill him" (133), it makes it sound as if maybe the lack of maternal connection as a mother who thinks for, and not about, her son and the person in question, is what Milman is lacking and is possibly searching for concept of familial love. After all, the only reason he was born was because Pilate gave some concoction to Ruth and said to drug Macon so that she could have sex with him. It was all out of sexual frustration, not really because Ruth loves Macon.
The other thing that really struck me home about the connection between Pilate and Milkman in this chapter is that they both are fighting for their lives and a place in the world or have fought for it. Pilate says, "'The people themselves. Some folks want to live forever. And some don't. I believe they decide on it anyway" (140). Morrison even shortly before described her as ageless. It's like Morrison is implying that Pilate's will power is so strong to even fend off death and those that get in her away and despite the fact that she is "something God never made" (142) she is still kicking. Her story parallels to Milkman in that Milkman was wanted and expected to be dead and how many obstacles were there even before he was alive. That's why there is such a deep fascination in Pilate's eyes when she visits the Macon household in chapter 1. Because they both overcame the hardships on possible death and had the will power to want to continue to live.
I do sympathize a bit with Pilate. She never chose her own name- as ill-ridden as it is-, she has to go through countless struggles even before she was born, and she is seen as something whose existence isn't right in the world. Who can't feel sympathy for someone who has gone through so much yet still made a place for herself in the world on her own?